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Thread: X32 is impressive. 1 problem, cannot run +5dbv input signal without distortion...

  1. #1

    X32 is impressive. 1 problem, cannot run +5dbv input signal without distortion...

    Hello Everyone!
    First post here. First Behringer product I have ever bought. I've seen alot of "stuff" come from Behringer and always wondered, why would I buy something that was just gonna fall apart on me? I was never impressed with the sound of anything that came from them. And it looks like instead of stealing designs they are buying the companies whom they appreciate. Things seemed to have taken a turn for the better, and I'm glad for it!
    15 years of doing live sound, 3-4 times a week and constantly recording in the studio, has given me a good perspective on Live/Studio gear, it's abilities and limitations (so I like to think lol). I have been working with the x32 for a several days in the studio. (I have used it in a live environment as well) The x32 is great, only a couple of complaints, so here we go.
    1. Unless I'm missing something, the x32 cannot handle +5dbv signals. I have run stereo line in's from my DA unit direct to the aux's on the x32, bypassed the gain stage completely (although I did try it with the gain all the way down first), so the signal is comming in as an insert just before the fader, and I still get distortion, audible distortion on the loudest parts of my masters (yes I made sure all sends were down and all channel plugs off). If I run the same line in's from my DA to the Tape returns of my Mackie 32x8 (which is used only for post mix), and then make sure it's set at +5dbv (and not-10dbv) , then viola, perfectly clear, fader control with no distortion. I never touched anything in the DAW so nothing changed the incoming signal level. Keep in mind that I kept the vu level on the x32 well under what it would show as clipping, but would still get the distortion. But like I said it was only on the loudest parts of my masters......
    The only solution I see is an x-adat card, and using the x32 as my DA....... Am I wrong about this?
    2. I have not seen a way to run one effect unit directly into another, example: For Live FOH I would like to chain Stereo House EQ, into a Stereo Exciter, then into a Stereo Compressor. But maybe I'm just missing something in the routing menu's?
    3. Why not run multiple instances of HUI across all the flying faders? And I know there is a way to do sends on faders inside of protools. The Tascam us2400 had a flip button and aux buttons to cycle through send A-E, it would be great to be able to assign aux groups to the encoder buttons and flip to them. Tascam did this over a legacy usb port.

    Thanks for your time and input!
    Way to step it up a notch Behringer! Now lets see how long this puppy will keep running!
    (I feel an x-adat card itch coming on)
    Last edited by Ricky Philip; 07-29-2014 at 02:53 AM.

  2. #2
    Ok, got the x-adat card in and defiantly got some crystal clear signal coming through!
    Seem as though there is no option to bypass the preamps without running the adat input it as an insert.
    AND! soooooooo...... under the insert options I cannot assign incoming signals directly. I have to remap adat ins 1-2 to aux in's 1-2, then I can use Aux 1-2 as the insert. Kinda silly.
    Why can't I just have the option to run any of the adat inputs as an insert directly?
    This eats up my aux in's and limits me to a max of 6 channels of unadulterated playback channels.......
    Not really sure why adat input signals would be routed through the preamp anyway....
    If i wanted to use the preamp's and the x32's AD wouldn't I be pluging in an xlr from an analog source?
    If the ADAT in signals are going through the preamp are they going through a 2nd AD to DA conversion chain inside the x32?
    Seems like if its comming in as a digital adat signal then it should only be going through a DA conversion, so I can hear it......

    Also the output seems to be going to the stereo bus, but the master fader is having no effect on the monitor output.
    Maybe I should just run it out a pair of the 1-16 xlr outputs if I want to use the master fader........not really a big deal.
    So when do we get to use the scribble strip with inserts only?
    Kind of annoying to look at a blank strip where I should be naming my master channels.......
    Thanks for any input!

  3. #3
    Super User Paul Vannatto's Avatar
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    Hi Ricky,

    Welcome to the forum. I don't have my X-ADAT card yet (have to pay off my second Rack first). So I can't provide X-ADAT experience yet. But the card should function in similar manner as the other cards (X-UF and X-USB) in that it should provide inputs and outputs in blocks of 8. Those inputs should be available without the X32 preamps, since those are tied to the physical XLR inputs (either the X32 itself, other X32, or the S16). You should be able to route this inputs and outputs to any of the banks of 8 in the Routing screen.

    The scribble strips are related to the X32 channel strips and have nothing to do with I/O.

    It might be a good idea to provide how you have your routing setup and an explanation on what you are trying to accomplish.

    Paul

  4. #4
    Thanks for the response. I have an apogee ad16 that I run my own outboard preamps to. So thats my main 16 channels of input AD. From there the adat output of the Apogee is going into an m-audio light-bridge, which takes the signals into protools via firewire.
    My master stereo output and my sends for headphone cue mixes are then being run from protools back through the same firewire, out the ADAT of the light bridge, and then into the behringer x32. (So now the behringer is acting as a DA unit.)

    So if I'm running my ADAT 1-16 out from lightbridge into the X32, this should give me fader control for playback and controlling my musicians' headphone mixes. (Would really like to see my clients' and musicians' be able to mix there own headphones with their mobile device)
    This is where the last post comes into play, when I want to route an incoming signal through a channel on the x32 it has to be done from the channel source and thus runs the signal through the gain stage. (or at least it seems to, the gain knob is fully functional and effects the level of this signal) This is what I would like to avoid. But, I guess I could do it that way as long as all of the x32 channels' are set to the same gain, then when a protools mix is recalled I dont have to mess with that gain section. The only way to avoid this is to run the signal as an insert. But when I do this I loose scribble strip functionality and it limits me to 6 inputs.
    It seems like I could use the other 16 channels on the X32 as mic pres and AD. I could then take the adat outputs from say channels 16-32 from the x32 and run them into the light-bridge, and bring up my incoming track count up another 16 channels to 32. I would have to make sure recording input channels are not routed through the master bus or I would be hearing them 2 different sources? 1 from when tracking, and 1 again coming through the playback level of protools.
    Anyway, got to crash. Hope this cleared things up a bit.

  5. #5
    >>Also the output seems to be going to the stereo bus, but the master fader is having no effect on the monitor output.

    This is a setting that can be changed (monitor section, 2nd rotary knob from the left, last option).

    -Patrick

  6. #6
    Ricky,

    >>The only solution I see is an x-adat card, and using the x32 as my DA....... Am I wrong about this?

    [1] I certainly wouldn't run an ADAT signal through an additional AD/DA! and it looks like the x-ADAT card is a solution. I have no experience with it though. The routing section enables you to route (by group of 8) your ADAT ins and outs at will, keeping if needed other analog ins and out free for use.

    For [2], I'll check the insert effects section (as opposed to the first 4 built-in blocks) see if there's a possibility there, but I don't remember chaining effects as a direct possibility possibility; you may have to run the effects as inserts through linked Buses (not very practical) to get what you'd want. ex: Chan 1 with EQ insert effect sends to Bus 1 with Exciter insert effect sending to Bus 2 with Compressor effect (kinda complex and not really usable IMHO).

    -Patrick

  7. #7
    The other solution is to have 6-10 db resistive pads on the returns.
    Cheap and easy to make.
    The "tape returns" of the Mackie are designed to take this kinfd of level while the inserts of the X32 are not.
    I have similar problems getting "broadcast level" returns to my X32 or DJs that don't know what the red lights on their mixer means.
    Pads solve this issue.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Vannatto View Post
    Hi Ricky,

    Welcome to the forum. I don't have my X-ADAT card yet (have to pay off my second Rack first). So I can't provide X-ADAT experience yet. But the card should function in similar manner as the other cards (X-UF and X-USB) in that it should provide inputs and outputs in blocks of 8. Those inputs should be available without the X32 preamps, since those are tied to the physical XLR inputs (either the X32 itself, other X32, or the S16). You should be able to route this inputs and outputs to any of the banks of 8 in the Routing screen.

    The scribble strips are related to the X32 channel strips and have nothing to do with I/O.

    It might be a good idea to provide how you have your routing setup and an explanation on what you are trying to accomplish.

    Paul
    The ADAT in's are being run throught the config/preamp section and are raised/lowered with the trim pot when I assign them as the channel source. Is this trim not the preamp? The only way to get fader only control, that I have found is to run the adat in as an insert......

  9. #9
    Super User Paul Vannatto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Philip View Post
    Is this trim not the preamp?
    The trim is a digital trim and is provided on all non-preamped inputs (with +-18db). The gains are the actual preamp adjustments (-12 to +60db). It is sort of the same as the optical and digital zoom on a digital camera. The optical actually changes the optics of the lens; the digital zoom is digital interpolation.

    The only way to get fader only control, that I have found is to run the adat in as an insert......
    Once the channels are assigned the ADAT ins, you should have full fader control, if the taps are post-fader.

    Paul

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick-Gilles Maillot View Post
    >>Also the output seems to be going to the stereo bus, but the master fader is having no effect on the monitor output.

    This is a setting that can be changed (monitor section, 2nd rotary knob from the left, last option).

    -Patrick
    Got it, easy fix on that! Thanks, I should have known that........

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