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Thread: Multi-track recording

  1. #1

    Multi-track recording

    Hello there, recently i took a contract for a major concert in an island, one of the conditions of the contract is that i will provide a 24 track recording of the concert so the producer will take the tracks and make a production.
    I have two questions : which is the best way to record 24 tracks over firewire as direct outs and how can i record at the same time the master left and right (not over usb on surface).

  2. #2
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    Dear Alexandros,
    By default, the direct outputs of the X32's 32-channels are sent over firewire. These signals are sent just after the mic preamp and A/D conversion, so any channel strip processing you do during the show will not be recorded which is typically what is desired. Since you only need 24, you can make a simple ROUTING change to include your Main LR. Go to the "card out" page of the ROUTING menu, and for the last column change the setting from "Local 25-32" to "Out 9-16". Since your Main LR signals are assigned to outputs 15 & 16 by default, this will get your main mix to inputs 31 & 32 on your computer. You can verify this on the "analog out" page of the ROUTING menu, as analog outputs 9-16 is what will appear on inputs 25-32 to your computer once making the change.
    Best,
    John DiNicola
    Manager, Channel Marketing
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER

  3. #3
    Did something very similar in may this year, used a laptop that was running sonar, but I'm sure you could sub in any daw no problem. We did set and forget recording which did the entire show as 1 file...lots of editing after the fact, and I would not do again that way. It worked fine other than more cutting and locating and saving than anyone need do-and the files were HUGE. I would highly suggest having someone to just handle that end of your gig. They can pay close attention to levels, stop and start, save, name etc etc while you mix the show. It also was NOT a contacted condition for us, just a bonus for producer..as well as a ploy for future business.

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    Hi Alexandros,

    Gary is correct that recording the whole show from start to finish makes the files huge and difficult to process post-show. But the problem is that there is rarely enough time between songs to stop the recording, name the files, save the files and setup for the next song.

    So what I suggest is how I do it. I save everything by sets. Most groups do 10-12 songs per set, then a 15-20 minute break, then the next set. That gives plenty of time to process that set. Before the show begins, I setup a folder for each set (call them Set 1, Set 2, etc). Then using a DAW (I use Reaper), I create my set project files with the necessary tracks (named, armed, configured, etc.) and save them to the appropriate folders. That puts the track files for that set in those folders.

    Then when the show begins, I simply start recording the first set. When it is done, I stop recording, save the project, maybe have a look at the tracks, etc. Then just before then next set, I bring up that set project to be ready to record when it starts.

    Paul

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Vannatto View Post
    Hi Alexandros,

    Gary is correct that recording the whole show from start to finish makes the files huge and difficult to process post-show. But the problem is that there is rarely enough time between songs to stop the recording, name the files, save the files and setup for the next song.

    So what I suggest is how I do it. I save everything by sets. Most groups do 10-12 songs per set, then a 15-20 minute break, then the next set. That gives plenty of time to process that set. Before the show begins, I setup a folder for each set (call them Set 1, Set 2, etc). Then using a DAW (I use Reaper), I create my set project files with the necessary tracks (named, armed, configured, etc.) and save them to the appropriate folders. That puts the track files for that set in those folders.

    Then when the show begins, I simply start recording the first set. When it is done, I stop recording, save the project, maybe have a look at the tracks, etc. Then just before then next set, I bring up that set project to be ready to record when it starts.

    Paul

    That is a very good idea, however as you mentioned it is rather difficult to have enough time between the songs to prepare for multiple projects in daw.
    I want to propose another idea and feel free to correct me if i am wrong, since i do not want to lose the 8 input channels (allways want to have a couple exta channels in all gigs) for the L-R recording, would i do any damage to the pre-amps if i routed L-R to 2 different matrixes (one L one R) set those matrixes to out 13-14 and then with 2 cables made these outs to inputs let's say 31-32 and really be carefull with the levels so i would not get any weird loop or something?

    I thank you all yet again for helping me!!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALEXANDROS DELIGIANNIS View Post
    That is a very good idea, however as you mentioned it is rather difficult to have enough time between the songs to prepare for multiple projects in daw.
    That's why I suggest you break it up in sets. In between sets, when the band is taking a break, you would have time to process the recording of that set.

    I want to propose another idea and feel free to correct me if i am wrong, since i do not want to lose the 8 input channels (allways want to have a couple exta channels in all gigs) for the L-R recording, would i do any damage to the pre-amps if i routed L-R to 2 different matrixes (one L one R) set those matrixes to out 13-14 and then with 2 cables made these outs to inputs let's say 31-32 and really be carefull with the levels so i would not get any weird loop or something?
    Yes you can do it that way. Although having the L/R signal convert to analog, then back to digital seems wrong somehow. You wouldn't have to send it to a matrix to accomplish this, just assign the L/R to the out 13-14. But make sure the signals of the channels you connect back don't go back into the L/R bus, or you will get internal feedback.

    There is another way of internal routing using the P16 bus. I remember John DiNicola explain it in an older post. But for the life of me I can't figure it out. Maybe someone else on the forum can remember.

    Paul

  7. #7
    If you are under a contract to provide a multi track recording you have to plan for a backup recorder as well.

    Using the s16 I get adat out to my hd24 recorder. Cheap insurance!

    And don't forget an ups! Losing power mid recording (at least before saving) may render everything useless...

  8. #8
    I agree with all above but still believe having a body with the express duty of recording, back ups etc etc will be worth it in the long run. Given the gig depends on it and perhaps future work down the road. I'ld say the extra expense is worth it. Could be someone with only decent daw knowledge but closely supervised by you, an extra set of eyes and hands and help at other times.

  9. #9
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    Dear Alexandros,
    You can always assign direct outputs of any channel to the remaining analog outs in the bank of 8 so that the other 6 channels are not wasted. Also, as Paul mentions, you can use the P16 "virtual outputs" to do the same thing if you need the analog outputs for other use. For example, assign Main LR to P16 channel 1 and 2 on the "P16 out" tab of the ROUTING menu, and assign any other direct outs you need to P16 channels 3-8. Then, on the "Card Out" page of the ROUTING menu you can choose the "P16 1-8" option for a bank of outputs. Hope it helps!
    Best,
    John DiNicola
    Manager, Channel Marketing
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER

  10. #10
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    Thanks John. At least I remembered it was you who explained it.

    Paul

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