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Thread: X32 is it possible to have 16 local outputs with S16 connected?

  1. #1

    X32 is it possible to have 16 local outputs with S16 connected?

    Hi everyone, there may be a simple answer to this, but being newby's with this board I wonder if anyone can help?

    After initialising the X32 console and connecting the S16 to the X32, the board seems to automatically assign outputs 1-8 to the S16 and outputs 9 to 16 to local on the X32.

    With a S16 connected to the X32 is it possible to still have all of the X32, 16 outputs set to local therefore disabling the S16 outputs.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Dear John,
    By default, the first 16 AES50 outputs on the X32 (which is what feeds the S16 outputs by default) are set to "Out 1-8" and "Out 9-16". "Out 1-8" and "Out 9-16" refer to whatever is assigned to the 16 XLR outs on the X32 via the "analog out" page of the ROUTING menu. So by default, whatever appears at those 16 XLR outputs on the X32 would be mirrored on the S16 outputs on stage.

    If you didn't want those signals getting to the S16s, you could change the settings on the "AES50" page of the ROUTING menu (there is a A and B page, depending on which AES50 port you are connected to on your X32) from "Out 1-8" / "Out 9-16" to other options.

    It is also possible to change what appears at S16 outputs by changing their operational mode. There is more information on this in the S16 Manual, which you can find by searching for the S16 Product Page here on BEHRINGER.COM.

    If you would like to provide some more details on your specific needs for those S16 outputs, I would be glad to suggest a way to route it.

    Best,
    John DiNicola
    Senior Specialist, Product Support
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER

  3. #3
    Hi John Thanks for the quick reply.

    The X32 is currently being hired out on a musical show. Spend Spend Spend" if you know it.

    The operator has one S16 connected to the X32 in the A port. The S16 is being used to carry 16 inputs from the orchestra's microphones back to the sound booth.

    He was using local outputs 15 and 16 for the main FOH left and right, output 14 for the mono sub speaker output, 13 as the centre fill (no delay) and outputs 11 and 12 as left and right side fills on a delay approx 30 feet to mirror the FOH left and right.

    All the installed speakers were passives and the amps for those speakers were situated in the booth hence the need to use a local outputs.

    The operator wanted to feed the on-stage fold back monitors as a mono feed from the local output 1 on the X32 and a changing room monitor on output 2, but unable to figure out how to do this he used outputs 9 and 10 as mix bus sends.

    This was 8 outputs in total and the operator had been told that later in the week there was a possibility that the show would be videoed and that the camera operator had enquired as to taking a feed from the X32. Again this would be a local output as the camera would be situated near to the sound booth.

    So basically he wanted to free up outputs 1 to 8 which were being routed to the S16 to local outputs 1 to 8 from the X32. Thereby, giving him all 16 outputs local to the X32 even though the S16 was being used for inputs.

    Hope this explains what he was trying to do and it would be great if you could explain how to achieve this.

    Thanks again John

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ormerod View Post

    So basically he wanted to free up outputs 1 to 8 which were being routed to the S16 to local outputs 1 to 8 from the X32. Thereby, giving him all 16 outputs local to the X32 even though the S16 was being used for inputs.

    Hope this explains what he was trying to do and it would be great if you could explain how to achieve this.

    Thanks again John
    Dear John,
    It sounds like there is no need to "free up" outputs 1-8, because you can use them locally at the X32 and on stage at the S16 simultaneously. For example, output 1 on the X32 would see the same signal as output 1 on the S16 by default. Since you have no need to have separate signals coming out of the S16, there is no further routing changes needed.
    The 16 outputs are individually assignable on the "analog out" page of the ROUTING menu.

    Regarding the on-stage fold back and changing room monitors, can you clarify what you wanted to go to these?
    If you wanted to a mono version of your mix, I would recommend routing the Main LR to a single (mono) Matrix and assigning that to an output.
    If you wanted mix buses 9 and 10 to be fed to outputs 1 and 2, you can accomplish this on the "analog out" page of the ROUTING menu.

    Hope it helps!

    John DiNicola
    Senior Specialist, Product Support
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER

  5. #5
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    Hi John,

    John DiNicola must be busy. So I will jump in to help.

    Regarding the outputs going to the S16; these can be taps off of what you assign to the outputs to the back of the X32 or can be something totally different. In the Routing menu, second tab (analog out) assigns whatever signal to the 16 XLR outputs on the back of the X32. The sixth tab (aes50-a) assigns the signals (in blocks of 8) to whatever is hooked up to the AES50 A port.

    So for your setup you would want the following

    analog out tab
    Output 15 => Main L
    Output 16 => Main R
    Output 11 => Main L, delay of 30 ft
    Output 12 => Main R, delay of 30 ft

    For the Output 13 (center fill) and Output 14 (sub), you would need to decide whether you want the Main C/M to work as the center or the sub. The other would be work through a matrix.

    The monitors would be normally fed through mixbusses

    To setup the S16 to accept these outputs, goto the aes50-a tab and assign the Output 1-8 to Out 9-16. Then hook up the FOH to the output 7 and 8 of the S16, etc.

    If the video feed is to be the same as the FOH, simply connect the video feed cables to outputs 15 and 16 at the back of the X32. If the video people want a custom mix, you could assign say Output 1 and 2 on the analog out tab to say a mixbus pair and send them whatever they want.

    Hope that helps

    Paul

  6. #6
    Dear John,

    Apologises for not responding sooner, but recent work commitments have left me little time to write. I now have the Behringer X32 back from being out on hire.

    I mentioned our conversations on this forums post to the operator and although he doesn't fully understand how he did it he was able to solve the problems he was facing, by manipulating the board through trail and error, so he was happy.

    The X32 has now gone straight onto another musical show, so the set up is different to the original question.

    I am not exactly new to digital mixers as I also own a Presonus 24.4.2 ("Sorry") for a couple of years, but I'm confused over the routing side of the X32 especially when I have a S16 connected.

    I must be missing something simple, because when setting the board up for the new show I had a few problems trying to get the main FOH out of local outputs 15 and 16 after initialized the console. We played with the routing page hoping to be lucky like the previous user by sorting the problems through trial and error, but to no avail.

    We eventually solved the main problem by switching the board's power off and back on again. In doing so the the main left and right fed from outputs 15 and 16 FOH suddenly became operational again. mmmmm Digital Glitch?

    Sorry to cut this short but a full day of Band Tech and dress rehearsal has worn me out.

  7. #7
    Dear Paul Thanks for your reply, it was really helpful.

    I've got the X32 back but haven't had the time to play with it as its gone out to another show. Eventually I'll get time to have a play and set up some common scenarios that we use at different venues.

    I will mention however, that in setting up the X32 at the latest show I hit another problem some of the details of which I've posted in reply to John's post.

    I think I need to revisit the webinars again. Once I'm able to experiment with the X32 and the S16, I'm sure it will become clear.

    Briefly, we had the X32 with a S16 attached. The X32 Local outputs 15 and 16 had no sound coming out of them even though we had initialized the console prior to set up and I'm led to believe that they then become the default for the main left and right channel.

    We were getting signals from channels 1 to 16 back to the X32 via the the inputs of the S16, but getting no output on local outputs 15 and 16. which was being used as the main left and right. The main left and right LED's also indicated that the stereo bus was working for those two channels.

    We were also sending a monitor mix back out through the S16 on output 1 via mix bus 1, but we were not getting any sound out of that output. I tried using mix bus 2 without success just in case it was a fault on the channel. In the routing I had the mix bus one assigned to output one.

    As we were running 20 radio mics we had another digital mixing desk (from a different manufacturer) that was running those mics and the X32 was acting as the instrument mixer which provided a left and right mix of all the instruments from the X32 via the S16. and on-stage mics which were connected directly to the X32 on channels 29 to 32

    Outputs 15 and 16 were being physically connected via xlr into a left and right channel on the other mixer. That mixer was then providing a full mix to the FOH.

    We checked that everything was being sent to the stereo bus and could hear everything on its solo except when we solo'd the main fader. When playing wav's from the usb stick, there was no sound being generated even though the left and right channel led's showed that an audio wav was being played.

    We tried all the possible ways to thinking we had routed something wrong without success.

    As the dress rehearsal was drawing to a close we decided to switch the X32 off using the safe shut down mode. When we switched it back on the main left and right on channels 15 and 16 were now working and sending a signal out. Digital glitch or what?

    We still haven't got mixbus 1 working out of the 1-8 output of the S16. So we've taken the whole mix which is now coming into the other digital mixer and feeding the monitor mix from the that board.

    So although we have managed to get what we wanted it wasn't the way we had planned it.

    Has anyone else experienced problems that have been righted by switching the S32 on and off. Maybe this is a question for another post.

    Anyway I've rattled on enough so thanks again Paul and if you have any suggested please don't hesitate to reply.

    Thanks again John

  8. #8
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    Hi John,

    Your explanation of your output problem, where you mentioned turning off the X32, then on, and you finally got output - I'm wondering if you are having a sync problem between the X32 and the S16. Are the syncing lights always green on the S16 (they are also on the top of the X32 display beside the clock)? If they go red periodically, maybe you have an ethernet connector problem on one of the ends of the cat5/6 cable. Something like that would definitely drive you nuts, eh? We've had that happen twice since we got them in December. Simply turning off the S16's then back on fixed the problem for us.

    I would suggest that they let you have the X32 for an uninterrupted day or so, so that you can run it through the various setups you require, without having the pressure of a live event. Doing signal path troubleshooting while live, will definitely make you lose a lot of hair, and maybe some years of your life.

    Paul

  9. #9
    Hi Paul,

    You may be on to something, I had similar problems when I first got another digital desk (The Presonus 24.4.2.) and connecting a computer via firewire. If you switched the computer on first the board wouldn't recognise the firewire connection. So you had to switch it on and off again. So now we always switch the mixer on first and everything else after.

    So with this thought in mind before last nights show we separated the power going to the X32 and the S16. This enabled us to switch the X32 on without the S16 coming on at the same time. We didn't have any problems last night so this is the way will enable them everytime from now on.

    My concern was that the main left and right on local outputs 15 and 16 on the X32 where not sending out a signal even though we had the inputs for the S16 coming into the X32. If this could be caused by the S16 being out of sync then my worry is that there is the potential for this to happen on a show.

    I know that familiarity helps a lot when using your gear so given time and frequent use maybe this concern will be eliminated.

  10. #10
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    Hi John,

    Turning on the X32 first, then the S16's and other equipment, then finally the amps is how we do it, and turn off in reverse order, using a sequencer. That way the X32, which is by default setup as the master clock is up and running before the S16 starts looking for the clock.

    Paul

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