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Thread: Creating an IEM mix

  1. #1

    Creating an IEM mix

    Hi all,

    I am planning on getting an X32 Producer when they come out, but have been playing around with the XControl application in the mean time to figure out everything I will need to know in order to setup what I currently have going with my MixWiz setup.

    The MixWiz has 6 auxes. I currently use Aux 1-4 pre-fader as inputs to my Furman IEM system as well as the main out L/R. The Furman individual mixer has 4 individual mix knobs and the 5th knob is the L/R main mix.

    I have been struggling with the send to bus to aux routing concept and was wondering if someone could give me a hand.

    First, I see how I can setup my buses so that I have a certain number of pre fader, post fader, and submixes. I don't really need a submix (drummer has vDrums), and the DCA's seem to be able to handle groups for what I need (vocals, guitars, bass, drums).

    I would like to setup a situation where the Aux 1-6 outputs on the back of the X32 represent 4 mixes from 4 buses (Aux 1-4), and the L/R outputs are on Aux 5 and 6.

    Could someone point me to the appropriate information? Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Hi Scott,
    don't mix up Auxes and Buses on X32. On the X32 you will find 6 inputs and 6 outputs on 6,3mm jack/cinch which are called aux.
    And you have 16 Buses which can be mixes or groups, depending on your configuration. The 16 XLR outs in the back can carry either mixes, direct outs or L/R. Again this depends on your configuration. On the right side of the sreen you find a "routing" button which brings up a screen with various tabs. Here you can define which signal is going or coming from where. On the home tab you choose your input sources, next you find the Analog out-tab which represent the 16 XLR outs in the back.Next is Aux out tab, here you choose the source you want to sent to the 6 jack/cinch out in the back. As you want to sent the L/R mix to the IEMs, I recommend to use a matrix for this - above the L/R fader push select, page over to the send tab and send the signal to Matrix 1+2. This way you have a L/R fader independent from your PA speaker send. On the routing page / Analog out tab assign the matrix 1+2 to XLR out 5+6. Assign mixbus 1-4 to Xlr out 1-4 and you should be good to go. Again don't mix up Auxes and Buses. On analog desks the Auxes were the monitor sends on the X32 they are called mix buses.
    Hope this helps, regards, Till

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Till Erb View Post
    Hi Scott,
    don't mix up Auxes and Buses on X32. On the X32 you will find 6 inputs and 6 outputs on 6,3mm jack/cinch which are called aux.
    And you have 16 Buses which can be mixes or groups, depending on your configuration. The 16 XLR outs in the back can carry either mixes, direct outs or L/R. Again this depends on your configuration. On the right side of the sreen you find a "routing" button which brings up a screen with various tabs. Here you can define which signal is going or coming from where. On the home tab you choose your input sources, next you find the Analog out-tab which represent the 16 XLR outs in the back.Next is Aux out tab, here you choose the source you want to sent to the 6 jack/cinch out in the back. As you want to sent the L/R mix to the IEMs, I recommend to use a matrix for this - above the L/R fader push select, page over to the send tab and send the signal to Matrix 1+2. This way you have a L/R fader independent from your PA speaker send. On the routing page / Analog out tab assign the matrix 1+2 to XLR out 5+6. Assign mixbus 1-4 to Xlr out 1-4 and you should be good to go. Again don't mix up Auxes and Buses. On analog desks the Auxes were the monitor sends on the X32 they are called mix buses.
    Hope this helps, regards, Till
    Thanks Till!

    Got it

    For some reason, I couldn't see to switch tabs on the "Routing" screen.

    So by default it looks like the X32 has the L and R out on Aux 1 and 2. Mix buses 1,2,3,and 4 are on Aux 3,4,5, and 6 respectively.

    Why would you use the Matrix mix instead of doing it as above?

    This way you can do the following:

    First, select "Main Bus" on the left fader panel select buttons. Next select "Sends on fader". This makes it so that each of the channel sliders now shows the mix for each mix bus selected on the right. You can then see your mix pretty easy by the position of the faders for the channel strips.

    Could you explain your reasoning for using the matrix mix instead of the bus mixes?

  4. #4
    Junior Member
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    Hi Scott
    Here is what is the default setting if you get an new x32: L/R is routed to XLR out 15+16 in the back. So if you connect your speakers to these outputs all is good and you can set your master level for the speakers with the L/R fader. Now given you just double these outputs to send them to your IEM device you will change the mix Balance of your IEM mix when you change the level of your speakers. How to avoid this - here comes the matrix idea, if you use one set of matrixes for your speakers and one set for your IEM mix you will have independent faders for both duties. With the sends-on-fader function you have 2 option to work with: on the right fader bank 2nd layer you select the mix you want to set up, for example MIx 1 then push the sends on fader button and now you can dial in with the faders of the left fader bank the instruments. 2nd option: on the right fader bank choose one chanel - push sends-on-fader button and then you can send on the right fader bank/2nd layer the one channel from the left fader bank to the different mixes. In short: you have the option to work either from the input side or from the mix side.
    And again to begin - forget the Auxes - Auxes on the X32 are just secondary inputs/outputs what one can use for example for CD playback or recording. But the monitorsends no matter whether they are wedge or IEM sends are set up with the MIX-buses.
    Wait until you have your hand on a X32 - with digital desk the possibilities are endless - quite more then on an analog desk, but most things will clear up just by using the desk. Give yourself a few days to play with the desk before you take it to the gig and play around with it. I am 100% positive once you found your way around you won't have the analog desk back.
    have fun ! regards, Till
    Till Erb *Audio Service*
    www.tillerb.de

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Till Erb View Post
    Hi Scott
    Here is what is the default setting if you get an new x32: L/R is routed to XLR out 15+16 in the back. So if you connect your speakers to these outputs all is good and you can set your master level for the speakers with the L/R fader. Now given you just double these outputs to send them to your IEM device you will change the mix Balance of your IEM mix when you change the level of your speakers. How to avoid this - here comes the matrix idea, if you use one set of matrixes for your speakers and one set for your IEM mix you will have independent faders for both duties. With the sends-on-fader function you have 2 option to work with: on the right fader bank 2nd layer you select the mix you want to set up, for example MIx 1 then push the sends on fader button and now you can dial in with the faders of the left fader bank the instruments. 2nd option: on the right fader bank choose one chanel - push sends-on-fader button and then you can send on the right fader bank/2nd layer the one channel from the left fader bank to the different mixes. In short: you have the option to work either from the input side or from the mix side.
    And again to begin - forget the Auxes - Auxes on the X32 are just secondary inputs/outputs what one can use for example for CD playback or recording. But the monitorsends no matter whether they are wedge or IEM sends are set up with the MIX-buses.
    Wait until you have your hand on a X32 - with digital desk the possibilities are endless - quite more then on an analog desk, but most things will clear up just by using the desk. Give yourself a few days to play with the desk before you take it to the gig and play around with it. I am 100% positive once you found your way around you won't have the analog desk back.
    have fun ! regards, Till
    Hi Till,

    Thanks for the explanation.

    I am already 100% positive that I will not go back to an analog desk

    On the IEM mix .... I have individual mix stations at each band member. They make their own mix, all I need is pre-fader outputs for them to mix with. By the way, what is the difference on the routing tab between "pre fader" and "Post Eq"?

    On the routing/Aux Out page, when you select Aux1 on the left and Pre Eq on the right for the "tap", does that mean that the signals on the bus associated with Aux1 are tapped Pre Eq, or does it mean that the bus mix is tapped "Pre Eq"?

    Also, bear with me, what is the difference between a matrix mix bus and a normal mix bus?

  6. #6
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    Hi Scott
    first a question: what were the inputs on the mix stations you used before and how many channels they have?
    Next: the 4 possibilities for sending the signal from:
    pre equ : normally used on recording feeds to avoid to be limited on the mix session by the equ that being used live. signal is picked after pre amp and low-cut.
    post equ : signal is picked after pre amp, low cut and equ. which is a good pick up point for wedge mixes.
    Pre fader: you have all elements of the channel processing including pre amp,low-cut, equ and gate and compressor, but being independent from the the level setting of the fader.
    Post fader: all elements as on pre fader plus being dependent from the level setting of the fader.
    classic example would be -CD playback track you send to stage monitors- you want the music to fade-out in your wedges same way as you fade-out in the main speaker.
    Matrix: you can not send signal from an input to a matrix - only from dcas, mixes, subgroups or L/R
    Classic use for matrixes are for example front-, out- or under balcony-fills or a separate set of speakers in the lobby or any other room. Matrixes can be used for various other duties.
    On smaller analog desks you had for example 6 Aux sends normally configured as 4 pre fader sends for the monitors and 2 post fader sends for FXs. And you had classic sub-groups and most times above the subgroups a set of matrix encoders . I believe it was Yamaha on the GA-serie of mix desks who came up first with the concept of mix-buses where you had to decide do you want them to be Auxes or sub-groups. Meanwhile since digital desks became affordable to all of us it is quite common thru all brands, that they give us a certain amount of Mix-buses and we have to decide what we want to do with these mix-buses. So back to the X32 - imagine you want to use the desk as monitor desk on old school wedges/sidefill stage set-up. You can load all slots of the FX-rack with dual stereo graphic equs, then you must use all 16 mix-buses to feed the equs/wedges and you won't have an FX-send. Given you want at least on reverb for the singers you have to set up 1 FX slot with a reverb which brings down your possible wedge sends to 14. On the X32 sends can only be configured pre or post fader in pairs.
    May I point your attention to the other available resources here in the forum. the webinars / youtube videos are a very good resource to shine some light on various aspects of the X32 and don't forget to study the manual, which is also a great point to start your journey into the digital domain.
    Another hint, download the manual of the Yamaha PM 3000 console - attention not the PM 3500 and not the M3000- it must be the original PM 3000. You will have an endless resource to understand the philosophy behind Matrixes or VCAs ( which are -since desks became digital - called DCAs/ function and use of are the same) and various other keen mixing tricks. At least for me it was almost 30 years back the beginning of a learning experience which still last to this day.
    Good luck ! regards, Till
    Till Erb *Audio Service*
    www.tillerb.de

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Till Erb View Post
    Hi Scott
    first a question: what were the inputs on the mix stations you used before and how many channels they have?
    It is a Furman HDR. It has 4 mono inputs and a single stereo input. I currently use 4 pre fader aux mixes for the mono inputs, and the L/R out for the stereo input.

    Next: the 4 possibilities for sending the signal from:
    pre equ : normally used on recording feeds to avoid to be limited on the mix session by the equ that being used live. signal is picked after pre amp and low-cut.
    post equ : signal is picked after pre amp, low cut and equ. which is a good pick up point for wedge mixes.
    Pre fader: you have all elements of the channel processing including pre amp,low-cut, equ and gate and compressor, but being independent from the the level setting of the fader.
    Post fader: all elements as on pre fader plus being dependent from the level setting of the fader.
    classic example would be -CD playback track you send to stage monitors- you want the music to fade-out in your wedges same way as you fade-out in the main speaker.
    That is what I thought, but wasn't sure. Thanks.

    Matrix: you can not send signal from an input to a matrix - only from dcas, mixes, subgroups or L/R
    Classic use for matrixes are for example front-, out- or under balcony-fills or a separate set of speakers in the lobby or any other room. Matrixes can be used for various other duties.
    On smaller analog desks you had for example 6 Aux sends normally configured as 4 pre fader sends for the monitors and 2 post fader sends for FXs. And you had classic sub-groups and most times above the subgroups a set of matrix encoders .
    Ah. I get it. So the inputs are all virtual, but the output is physical.

    I believe it was Yamaha on the GA-serie of mix desks who came up first with the concept of mix-buses where you had to decide do you want them to be Auxes or sub-groups. Meanwhile since digital desks became affordable to all of us it is quite common thru all brands, that they give us a certain amount of Mix-buses and we have to decide what we want to do with these mix-buses. So back to the X32 - imagine you want to use the desk as monitor desk on old school wedges/sidefill stage set-up. You can load all slots of the FX-rack with dual stereo graphic equs, then you must use all 16 mix-buses to feed the equs/wedges and you won't have an FX-send. Given you want at least on reverb for the singers you have to set up 1 FX slot with a reverb which brings down your possible wedge sends to 14. On the X32 sends can only be configured pre or post fader in pairs.
    May I point your attention to the other available resources here in the forum. the webinars / youtube videos are a very good resource to shine some light on various aspects of the X32 and don't forget to study the manual, which is also a great point to start your journey into the digital domain.
    Another hint, download the manual of the Yamaha PM 3000 console - attention not the PM 3500 and not the M3000- it must be the original PM 3000. You will have an endless resource to understand the philosophy behind Matrixes or VCAs ( which are -since desks became digital - called DCAs/ function and use of are the same) and various other keen mixing tricks. At least for me it was almost 30 years back the beginning of a learning experience which still last to this day.
    Good luck ! regards, Till
    That is great. Thanks Till.

    One last question (validation). VCA's (on the X32 I believe they are calling them DCA's). So the DCA's are just a volume group then?

  8. #8
    With most digital consoles, you don't want to combine (via your Furman for example) the main mix with the direct out of any channel or bus that is contained in the main mix. The reason is that the direct, bus, and main mixes will all have differing amounts of latency, and when combined the resultant comb filtering will sound quite bad. Just set up a stereo mix for yourself on a pair of pre-fade buses.

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